Chief Nosa Edo-Osagie is the Chairman of the Benin Branch of the Nigerian Bar Association (NBA). In this interview with Bill Okonedo and Onosetale Omoike, the NBA scribe speaks on a wide range of issues, including the judiciary, politics, governance, crime, as well as Nigeria’s correctional system and the crisscross with the law.
What does the NBA set out to do?
Well, first of all, the Nigerian Bar Association is the umbrella body of lawyers in the country. You have the national level and then you have the local level. The local level is the state level and we all know the duties of lawyers. Without law there will be anarchy in the society. And of course the lawyers, they defend the defenceless. We are in the vanguard in the promotion of the rule of law and ensuring an egalitarian society.
Beyond that, the NBA assists to shape policies in the state that will be better for citizens. The NBA represents the common good of society. The NBA sets out to defend the defenceless, promote the rule of law and ensure that there’s no anarchy. The legal profession actually is entrusted with the responsibility of ensuring law and order in the sense that you read out the laws and of course you have the enforcers, that is, the police and all other organs of government.
This role that you speak of as enshrined or being the function of the NBA, is it self-proclaimed or constitutional? Where do you get your authority, your responsibility from?
Both constitutionally and involvement through custom. What I mean, custom, these are set rules and patterns that a lawyer in the society performs, even before the constitution. So, in essence, it is both constitutionally and also involvement by customs, societal customs. What I mean is that, for instance, you don’t expect how well a lawyer should dress to be in the constitution. We have what we call ethics in the profession. Those are the set-out rules that guide lawyers, as to what they intend to do to become lawyers and when they become lawyers, how they intend to conduct themselves and as a matter of fact, when they do certain things that are unethical or against, the ethics of the profession, the sanctions that are available.
So, it’s a whole lot of information that guides lawyers across the country and not only in Nigeria but across the world.
So, to some extent, yes, the constitution is there. The constitution is a grund norm for everybody. We all derive a source of authority from the constitution. So, lawyers have a duty to perform and it’s enshrined in our own ethical standards that we have for ourselves.
What is the connection between the law and the polity?
Law and politics? As a matter of fact, they are intertwined in the sense that the polity you are talking about, there are rules and regulations that guide politics, and for any political society to be stable, laws have to be in place.
So, your question actually is very apt. You know, they are kind of intertwined. And at the same time, there’s a distinction. Yes, there’s a distinction, so one rule supports the other rule. The other one supports the other one, you know, but there’s a clear distinction with regard to law and politics.
There have been two issues in recent years. One, the process of the appointment of judges. Two, the ethical conduct of judges. What is your thinking about the process of the selection of judges, ethics and practice, as allegations have become so rife?
Some of these things we are seeing today actually have been there. It’s just that perhaps now with the social media in place, so there seems to be a hike of most of these things that are happening. But let me go straight to the point. We all evolved from a society, so a society that is good, of course, certain things that come out of you will be good, and the ones that are not so good, you have the same thing.
And I will say, clearly, the process of selecting judges here is very formidable. You know, it’s tedious, it’s strenuous. But again, sometimes, there are influences. Perhaps the politicians too are more or less a problem to the system. But I will say clearly that lawyers, those who are appointed to become judges, by and large, they dispense their job very creditably. Occasionally you hear of one or two or three, as the case may be, it is very, very minute so you probably might not generalise.
There are, every now and then, attempts to make it to be flawed. I will tell you clearly, we have a very methodological, tedious train of process in selection. And as a matter of fact, even when the judiciary has done the selection, we still come to the NBA. They come to my table. We look at them. We will invite advocates. We invite senior lawyers. We invite other lawyers of importance who are critical stakeholders in terms of looking at the personality and the character involved, because character is very pertinent. You could have all the degrees, all the knowledge, but if your character is deficient, it’s a minus because the bench is a noble position and highly respected. So, when you are put into the bench, you should not only have the competence to discuss justice, but the character must be above all.
Now, the other question you asked in relation to selection process and integrity. Integrity is very critical like I have said, so I know for a fact that so far in a long while, we have not had cause to doubt, someone that is in the list, in the nomination list of those to be appointed judges, and Edo State, for instance has fared very well terms of this selection. And as a matter of fact, there is a huge clamour to get more judges into the bench.
So, what would you like to see done differently as regards selection of judges, the conduct of judges?
There’s nothing wrong with the selection process. And like I said, sometimes you have these outside influences that can affect some of the outcomes. But I tell you clearly, the judges should be sworn in by the chief judge of the state. That is my take on it.
In Nigeria, there are over 80,000 inmates locked up in the 240 correctional centres and over 70 per cent of them are awaiting trial. Does the NBA not have a role in facilitating things here?
First of all, let me say the NBA cannot go to the prisons to release any inmates. You know, there’s a system. You have the police who does the arrest. And perhaps if it is a criminal matter, of course, you have the Ministry of Justice. And if it’s the other way around, it’s a chain of activities. Now talking about the huge number of inmates and what have you, the police are partly to blame because sometimes they put people there and they don’t have all the information to charge them to court. Sometimes even when they take them to court, they still don’t have the complete evidence to go ahead and prosecute, as the case may be. Lawyers play a very huge role. And in terms of pro bono, NBA comes very formidable.
There, we have a Legal Aid Council, we have the Human Rights Committee. There are so many committees under the NBA that intervene in some of the things you have just said. And I can tell you clearly, the NBA does much more than the public is aware of.
Again, what they call prerogative of mercy is usually dispensed by the chief judge of the state. Every now and then they look at people who have been locked up for periods and perhaps you can extend the prerogative of mercy to them. But again, these things are dependent on the various circumstances. You do not expect a murderer, for instance, or a rapist, to be given such magnanimity and, of course, there are cases that are more or less a felony, so there are some people who deserve to be incarcerated, with all due respect. But the huge population of awaiting-trial inmates and what have you has to do with the system. And I just gave you an instance, when people are arrested, the police, get the information, and of course, sometimes, too, the lawyers. It depends, because if a lawyer wants to get witnesses and evidence and what have you, there might be some delay. But I think the delay essentially comes from the police. And of course, even the inmate’s family. For instance, if they are granted bail and they cannot perfect the conditions of the bail, there’s nothing the judge or magistrate can do, or even the lawyer. That person will remain incarcerated until perhaps those conditions are met.
Now to technology. Laptop computers are very commonplace and it is said that if the judicial system would deploy laptops with cameras and the Internet, within three months, the bulk of the people awaiting trial around the country would be out on bail or discharged and acquitted through the deployment of virtual court hearings. Doesn’t the NBA have a role here?
Well, first of all, this assumption is misplaced in the sense that the extent to which the technology will play a role is in terms of information taking that has to do with, perhaps, when the judge is writing, because as I speak to you, most of the systems are computerised. So, the inmates you are talking about, technology can fast-track certain things.
What I mean is virtual courts, that’s to say, there’s a laptop here. I set up a laptop from the prison. The judge is wherever he is, and adjudication is going on. He can see and hear the accused, so adjudication is going on. The accused can see the judge, the lawyer.
Well, both the NBA and other organs in the system play their various roles. The chief judge has his own role, and the government, the executive government has its own role, but I can tell you clearly that the virtual courts you’re talking about, some states have already adopted it, but it’s not holistically. There are instances where, some of, these people have to be here, be seen physically. But I note for a fact that going by what you have just said, yes, you know, why not virtual? With virtual, you can conduct your cases wherever you are. And it’s all going on already. So, I think all we need to do is perhaps to leverage more the use of technology in the adjudication of matters, so that is the case. And I think it’s part of the plan that most of the judicial systems in the country have. But I know for a fact, again, too, that in no distant time, technology will be leveraged to address some of these small spots of problems highlighted.
But do not forget again that the way the process, the system runs is a bit conservative. There is an extent where we can deploy technology, and, of course, there is an extent where you can do the physical. But I know for a fact that it’s a gradual process and we will get there. You know, the importance of technology cannot be over-emphasised and that is a good one. And I know clearly that we’re heading there.
A lot of Nigerians believe that the judicial system is hijacking the electoral system and that presidents, governors, etc are now elected in the court rather than by ballot. What’s your take?
Well, that is not true. Absolutely not true. Yes, there have been some instances where courts made pronouncements based on what was before them, but to say that the judiciary hijacks the electoral process is very far from the truth. The true position really is the problems actually are the politicians. I just hope that in no distant time, politicians will learn to accept electoral result. And the problem again too, if you do not have confidence in the electoral process, there’s always the difficulty in accepting electoral result. That’s where the problems are coming from, not the judiciary.
What is your position on capital punishment in Nigeria? Is it right? Do you pass any moral lesson to society if a life is taken, an eye for an eye, is that a moral position?
Well, it has not only to do with morality because crime is crime, and there are punishments for crime in society. For me the new world order is towards life imprisonment, and that is what basically the new world is doing, as against capital punishment which is killing. Most parts of the world, you have this life imprisonment, and that is basically where I believe we are heading towards, but again, too, in a developing society like ours, sometimes to look at funding and other things that go with people who are incarcerated, but I can assure you that we are headed towards that threshold where capital punishment will no longer be that popular.
What in your opinion, are the challenges of Nigeria’s judicial system?
Challenges are many. When you don’t have financial autonomy, of course, for everything you want to do, you go to the executive. That is not independent, that is not financial independence. So first and foremost, the judiciary should be self-funding. Once there is self-funding, there will be less interference. Then number two is training and retraining of judges. And of course, there is a need to have more judges to dispense justice in the system. When I say judges, I’m talking about judicial officers, magistrates, court presidents, you know, and all that hierarchy, we should have more of them. The reason being that crime rate is high because of unemployment, because the social security and the welfare is low, and of course inflation is there. So, there’s a tendency to go to crime.
Before now, you wouldn’t hear much about kidnapping, but right now they are out there. So, I think we need to really enhance the judiciary in terms of dispensing justice. And of course, just like the police, the police have been recruited, people have been committed to the police force, so also to the various organs, they should enhance their manpower, the various organs should enhance their manpower to dispense justice in such a way that the society will be much more conducive for good living.
Tell us about the NBA in Benin, what it was before and what it is in your era. What were your goals, and how far did you go?
Well, first of all, you know, it is not expedient for me to score myself but I can tell you clearly there has been a huge difference in terms of the way we do things and before my era. We’ve had a robust achievement in the Benin branch. The Benin branch, you all know, is populated with very vibrant lawyers. You know, the first Senior Advocate of Nigeria in the southern part of the country is from this branch in the person of Kola Okeaya-Inneh (SAN). We have a lot of vibrant lawyers, from this catchment in the country. Do not forget that people like Ozekhome. So, in terms of very, very strong advocacy, the Benin branch has it. So, we have great achievements and during my tenure, if I may say, we’ve been able to put a lot of things in place, both structurally and otherwise. The way lawyers conduct themselves and all the things that go with it have improved tremendously. We have various committees in place to put a check of these things that I’m just talking about.
And beyond that, in terms of the welfare, we have committees that cater for welfare or lawyers, those who are sick and of course those who are bereaved and those who desire to own a property. You know, my committee has put on a structure to relate with developers. So, they have gained tremendously for it.
And beyond that, regarding healthcare, we have an insurance scheme. We do partner with the national organ of the NBA to ensure that insurance with regard to welfare and healthcare is taken care of. So, if you are sick and you fall within a certain bracket, you go to the clinic and get health care for little or nothing.
There is a belief in some quarters that crime rate in Benin and particularly Edo State has reduced significantly in the last couple of years. What are your observations?
There are no doubts about that, you know, because comparatively, Edo State is peaceful by all standards. Yes, but occasionally you have pockets of problems here and there. Not too long ago the Edo North axis, they were kidnapping, they were going down by capturing cattle rustlers and what have you, and then you have the cultists angle and what have you. But I can tell you clearly that most of these things have been tamed radically and so, relatively speaking, Edo State is very peaceful.
And the Commissioners of Police who come here, they get the history of the state, they look at the response, they look at the prominent rulers there, the local chiefs and what have you, and I can assure you they have the biopsis. They communicate. Communication is very key. So, where you have problems, they go there and nip it in the bud. So. to that extent, I think the state is relatively peaceful compared to previously.
Does this coincide with the Obaseki years?
Without a doubt, Obaseki has done very well. They have security meetings every now and then. The man is always on top of his game, so that’s very important. It’s one of the major reasons why we have peace here. And basically, government has been very supportive of security organs, the police, the military and other organs, including the Operation Wabaizigan that was created for the state, and they’re doing enormously well.
Is there any other thing you would like to add by way of advice or observation about the judicial system, about the polity, about the state of the nation, about governance?
Let me start with politics. Like I have said, I want to believe that in time, politicians will learn to accept election results. What you find now is that when you lose an election, you go to court. When you win, your opponent goes to court. I just think a time will come when we will be much more civil.
Then number two, we have to strengthen the electoral process because the way it is now, when you don’t have trust or confidence in the electoral process, it creates some of the problems I have just highlighted now, refusing to accept electoral results. So, the electoral process in itself has to be strengthened and make sure that it’s more transparent than what we have now.
Now in terms of the judiciary, the judiciary needs financial autonomy to be fully independent to other organs of government. As it is now, the executive does most of the funding for the judiciary and it’s more of an aberration because you can’t pay my salary and expect me to do certain things, perhaps that might not be pleasant for you. I have to be in a position of independence to do certain things, you know. So, I think there should be financial autonomy.
Then thirdly, more judicial officials should be employed. Why we have this problem is the fact that to date, the salaries of judicial officers are still paid by the executive. So judicial officers, they know too well that they need more people to be employed, but they cannot do it because they are not the ones who pay them. So, it’s the executive that will pay them. So not until the executive says, well, okay, I have enough money, employees. So, to that extent it’s usually not only being independent financially, we just have to make sure that the funding gets there so that they can employ more hands. There are some courts in the Edo where the judicial officers there are few. Sometimes a judge might be handling two or three jurisdictions, which is wrong. So, we need more hands, capable hands. When you have that, I can assure you that the awaiting trials that you are talking about who are populated in some of those cells will reduce tremendously, So these are chain reactions, so the whole part will have to work. If one segment works and the other one is not being catered for, then you have a problem.
How has your tenure as chairman affected your person and your worldview? Any lessons?
I’ve always been in the public space and have had a very rich background, you know, in terms of corporate practice and business. I’m an entrepreneur. So, the NBA office as a chairman, perhaps, maybe drew me closer to government and should I say, perhaps the workings of the judiciary because we get to meet the chief judge every now and then for issues. We have meetings and of course, perhaps sometimes we have to meet with the governor on certain issues. So, I think it has been very enriching and humbling. To me, the office of the chairman of the NBA is the most humbling. And I think that the state has done enormously well in terms of development in human capacity and what have you, practically everything.
